BUILDING AN FP1 RISER ON A SHOESTRING
RECENTLY I STARTED A THREAD ON THE PRACTICAL MACHINIST FORUM ABOUT BUILDING A RISER FOR THE FP1 MILLING MACHINE. THE REASON BEING THAT THE RISERS ARE RARELY AVAILABLE COMMERCIALLY AND WHEN THEY BECOME AVAILABLE ARE PRICED ABOVE THEIR REAL VALUE DUE TO THEIR RARITY.
THE RISER IS USED TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF THE FINE BORING HEAD ABOVE THE THE X AXIS ON THE FP1 AS THE TRAVEL ON THE Z AXIS ON THE FP1 IS LIMITED. THIS BORING HEAD WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR THE FP2 AND THE RISER RETROSPECTIVELY DESIGNED TO ALLOW IT TO BE MOUNTED ON THE FP1.
I SUGGESTED THAT A NEW RISER BE DESIGNED SO THAT BOTH FP1 AND FP2 HEADS CAN BE MOUNTED ON THE FP1 IN THE RAISED POSITION. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE FP2 HEADS HAVE A DIFFERENT DRIVE GEAR AND ARE LONGER THAN THE FP1 HEADS.
BELOW IS A SHORTENED VERSION OF THE HISTORY OF THE THREAD "FP1 Riser on a Budget". IF YOU WANT TO READ THE FULL SIZE THREAD THEN YOU CAN ACCESS THIS ON THE "PRACTICAL MACHINIST" FORUM
THE RISER IS USED TO INCREASE THE HEIGHT OF THE FINE BORING HEAD ABOVE THE THE X AXIS ON THE FP1 AS THE TRAVEL ON THE Z AXIS ON THE FP1 IS LIMITED. THIS BORING HEAD WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED FOR THE FP2 AND THE RISER RETROSPECTIVELY DESIGNED TO ALLOW IT TO BE MOUNTED ON THE FP1.
I SUGGESTED THAT A NEW RISER BE DESIGNED SO THAT BOTH FP1 AND FP2 HEADS CAN BE MOUNTED ON THE FP1 IN THE RAISED POSITION. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE FP2 HEADS HAVE A DIFFERENT DRIVE GEAR AND ARE LONGER THAN THE FP1 HEADS.
BELOW IS A SHORTENED VERSION OF THE HISTORY OF THE THREAD "FP1 Riser on a Budget". IF YOU WANT TO READ THE FULL SIZE THREAD THEN YOU CAN ACCESS THIS ON THE "PRACTICAL MACHINIST" FORUM
ABOVE, THE RISER AND FINE BORING HEAD SHOWN MOUNTED ON THE DECKEL FP1 MILLING MACHINE. THE CONSENSUS IS THAT IT DOES LOOK RATHER RIDICULOUS BUT WORTHWHILE HAVING FOR THAT SPECIAL JOB.
I SUBMITTED THE SKETCH SHOWN ABOVE LEFT TO THE FORUM AND SOMEONE KINDLY POSTED THE INFORMATION AS SHOWN ABOVE RIGHT.
USING THE SUBMITTED INFORMATION PLUS DIMENSIONS FROM MY OWN FP1, I DREW THE SKETCH SHOWN ABOVE LEFT TO CONFIRM THEM. ABOVE RIGHT IS A PROPOSAL FOR MOUNTING THE GEARS IN THE RISER BY MACHINING THE TOP AND BOTTOM OF THE RISER, INSTEAD OF BORING FROM THE REAR. THIS ALLOWS THE GEAR CENTRE DIMENSIONS TO BE ADJUSTABLE.
ABOVE LEFT IS MY PROPOSAL FOR A DUAL RISER THAT CAN ACCOMMODATE BOTH FP1 AND FP2 HEADS. ABOVE RIGHT IS A PROPOSAL FOR AN ALTERNATIVE HEAD CLAMPING SYSTEM.
ABOVE LEFT, I POSTED THIS SKETCH HOPING FOR SOMEONE TO ADD THE DIMENSIONS SO THAT I COULD GO FURTHER FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT BUT RECEIVED NO REPLIES. ABOVE RIGHT, IS MY NEW PROPOSAL FOR THE RISER "SANDWICH" WITH THE PLATES NOW VERTICAL INSTEAD OF HORIZONTAL. THIS WILL REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF MACHINING TO BE DONE AS THE PLATES ARE CUT FROM STANDARD STOCK SIZES AND DO NOT NEED TO BE NORMALISED AS IS THE CASE FOR SECTIONS FLAME CUT FROM PLATE.
FRUSTRATED BY THE LACK OF DIMENSIONAL INFORMATION ON THE FP2 HEADS, USING A SNIPPING TOOL, I SNIPPED OUT THE IMAGES FROM AN FP2 FACTORY PARTS LIST, PRINTED THEM OUT AND BY USING THE GIVEN DIMENSION ON THE ABOVE LEFT STANDARD VERTICAL MILLING HEAD, DETERMINED THE RATIO OF THE ACTUAL DIMENSION TO THE MEASURED DIMENSION ON THE PRINT OUT. ABOVE RIGHT IS THE FP2 SLOTTING HEAD. YOU CAN SEE THAT I`VE ADDED THE CALCULATED DIMENSIONS TO THE DRAWINGS.
ABOVE LEFT, THE SNIPPED OUT FP2 FINE BORING HEAD DRAWING WITH THE CALCULATED DIMENSIONS ADDED TO IT. THE THREE DRAWINGS GAVE CALCULATED DIMENSIONS THAT WERE WITHIN A COUPLE OF MILLIMETRES OF EACH OTHER AS FAR AS THE MOUNTING OF THE HEADS WAS CONCERNED. THIS IS BECAUSE LUCKILY THE DRAWINGS WERE ORIGINALLY TO SCALE, SOMETIMES THEY ARE NOT TO SCALE ON PARTS LISTS!
ABOVE RIGHT IS A TABLE TO WHICH I`VE ADDED THE FP1 AND THE CALCULATED FP2 HEAD MOUNTING DIMENSIONS.
ABOVE RIGHT IS A TABLE TO WHICH I`VE ADDED THE FP1 AND THE CALCULATED FP2 HEAD MOUNTING DIMENSIONS.
IN THE ABOVE PHOTOS, WHAT I`VE DONE IS TO SKETCH THE BASIC OUTLINE OF THE RISER HALF SIZE AND USED A PRINT OUT OF THE FP2 VERTICAL HEAD WHICH IS HALF SIZE AND CUT AWAY THE NOT REQUIRED PAPER SO THAT ONLY THE ESSENTIAL DETAILS OF THE MOUNTING LUGS AND THE DRIVE GEAR REMAINED.
ON THE LEFT HAND PHOTO, THE HEAD IS SHOWN RESTING ON THE TOP OF THE RISER AND ON THE RIGHT HAND PHOTO IS SHOWN PUSHED BACK INTO THE MOUNTED POSITION WITH THE GEARS MESHED TOGETHER.
AT THIS POINT THERE IS STILL SOME DOUBT REMAINING WHETHER THIS IS POSSIBLE DUE TO THE DOVETAILS AT THE REAR HAVING BEEN EXTENDED FORWARD TO ENABLE THE FP1 HEADS TO BE LOCATED.
ON THE LEFT HAND PHOTO, THE HEAD IS SHOWN RESTING ON THE TOP OF THE RISER AND ON THE RIGHT HAND PHOTO IS SHOWN PUSHED BACK INTO THE MOUNTED POSITION WITH THE GEARS MESHED TOGETHER.
AT THIS POINT THERE IS STILL SOME DOUBT REMAINING WHETHER THIS IS POSSIBLE DUE TO THE DOVETAILS AT THE REAR HAVING BEEN EXTENDED FORWARD TO ENABLE THE FP1 HEADS TO BE LOCATED.
FROM THE COLLECTED DIMENSIONS OF BOTH THE FP1 AND THE FP2 HEADS I REALISED THAT THE DIMENSIONS FOR MOUNTING THE REAR OF THE HEADS WERE IDENTICAL. SO THE NEXT TIME THAT I WAS IN THE WORKSHOP I MEASURED THE MAXIMUM FORWARD POSITION OF THE FP1 HEAD AS SHOWN IN THE ABOVE LEFT HAND PHOTO. THE LIMITING FACTOR FOR THIS 85mm MOVEMENT IS THE GUARD AT THE FRONT OF THE DRIVING GEAR AS SHOWN IN THE ABOVE RIGHT HAND SKETCH. I HAD EXTENDED THE REAR DOVETAILS TO 95mm AND AS THE EXTRA MOVEMENT FORWARD AVAILABLE ON THE FP2 HEADS WAS 43mm DUE TO THEIR GREATER LENGTH, THEN IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THE FP2 HEADS WOULD FIT ONTO THE DUAL RISER.
SORTING OUT THE PROBLEM THAT THE 20 DEGREE PRESSURE ANGLE GEAR ON THE FP2 HEADS MAY NOT SLIDE THROUGH THE 14.5 PRESSURE ANGLE DRIVING GEAR FOR THE FP1 HEADS
WE HAD BEEN AWARE THAT THIS PROBLEM WAS A THORN IN THE SIDE OF THE DUAL RISER FROM THE OUTSET AND THE ONLY WAY TO ELIMINATE THIS POSSIBLE THREAT WAS TO BUILD A RIG SO THAT THIS OPERATION COULD BE CARRIED OUT.
ON FILE AT THE PRACTICAL MACHINIST`S FORUM IS THAT SOMEONE ACTUALLY DID FIT AN FP2 HEAD ONTO AN FP1 Y AXIS. THE RESULT WAS AN INCREDIBLY NOISY OPERATION CAUSED BY THE GEARS, ALTHOUGH BEING BOTH MODULE 2, HAVING DIFFERENT PRESSURE ANGLES, 14.5 FOR THE FP1 Y AXIS DRIVE GEAR AND 20 FOR THE FP2 HEAD DRIVEN GEAR.
ON FILE AT THE PRACTICAL MACHINIST`S FORUM IS THAT SOMEONE ACTUALLY DID FIT AN FP2 HEAD ONTO AN FP1 Y AXIS. THE RESULT WAS AN INCREDIBLY NOISY OPERATION CAUSED BY THE GEARS, ALTHOUGH BEING BOTH MODULE 2, HAVING DIFFERENT PRESSURE ANGLES, 14.5 FOR THE FP1 Y AXIS DRIVE GEAR AND 20 FOR THE FP2 HEAD DRIVEN GEAR.
ABOVE IS SHOWN THE RIG THAT I MADE TO CHECK WHETHER THE GEARS WOULD SLIDE THROUGH EACH OTHER. ON THE RIGHT HAND PHOTO, THE LEFT HAND GEAR IS THE ORIGINAL DECKEL 39 TOOTH 14.5 PA GEAR THAT I REMOVED FROM MY FP1 SLOTTING HEAD. THE RIGHT HAND GEAR IS A MODULE 2, 24 TOOTH 20 PA GEAR THAT I PURCHASED FROM HPC GEARS IN THE UK. THE GEAR SHAFTS WERE ADJUSTABLE TO ENABLE THE CENTRES TO BE CHANGED.
THE FINDINGS WERE THAT WITH THE GEAR CENTRES AT THE NOMINAL DIMENSION, ALTHOUGH THEY WOULD NOT ROTATE TOGETHER, THEY WOULD EASILY SLIDE THROUGH EACH OTHER.
THE NEXT STEP WAS TO DETERMINE THE CENTRE DIMENSION THAT WOULD ALLOW THE GEARS TO ROTATE TOGETHER. THIS WAS FOUND TO BE NOMINAL PLUS 0.014 INCHES (0.36mm).
THE FINDINGS WERE THAT WITH THE GEAR CENTRES AT THE NOMINAL DIMENSION, ALTHOUGH THEY WOULD NOT ROTATE TOGETHER, THEY WOULD EASILY SLIDE THROUGH EACH OTHER.
THE NEXT STEP WAS TO DETERMINE THE CENTRE DIMENSION THAT WOULD ALLOW THE GEARS TO ROTATE TOGETHER. THIS WAS FOUND TO BE NOMINAL PLUS 0.014 INCHES (0.36mm).
ABOVE IS A SKETCH THAT I MADE TO HIGHLIGHT THE ACTUAL GEAR CENTRES BETWEEN THE FP1 Y AXIS AND THE FP1 HEADS. THE ACTUAL DIMENSION IS NOMINAL PLUS 0.012 INCHES (0.296mm). THIS DIMENSION OVER NOMINAL IS NECESSARY TO ENABLE THE INTERCHANGEABILITY OF THE DIFFERENT HEADS WITH THE Y AXIS.
SHOWN ABOVE, USING THE INCREDIBLY VERSATILE SLIP GAUGES TO FIND THE IMPORTANT DIMENSIONS OF THE FP1 Y AXIS HEAD MOUNTING DOVETAILS ACCURATELY SO THAT THESE DIMENSIONS COULD BE USED TO MACHINE UP THE RISER
ABOVE IS AN IMPORTANT SKETCH THAT ALTHOUGH IT SHOWS AN EARLIER CONFIGURATION OF THE RISER, GIVES THE IMPORTANT INFORMATION TO THE GEARING THAT WILL BE USED ON THE FINAL VERSION OF THE RISER
THE FINAL VERSION OF THE FP1 DUAL RISER DATED 26.07.16
MANY DIFFERENT IDEAS WERE PUT FORWARD AS TO THE ACTUAL FUNCTION OF THE RISER AND THESE WERE GRADUALLY FOUND TO BE UNSUITABLE FOR THE FINAL VERSION DUE TO VARIOUS PROBLEMS.
ONE THING TO REMEMBER WHEN READING THESE SKETCHES IS THAT THE BLOCK IS NOW IN ONE PIECE AS THE SLIDING FUNCTION BETWEEN THE TWO HALVES HAS BEEN DROPPED AND THE SLIDING OF THE HEADS NOW TAKES PLACE ON THE TOP OF THE RISER. I HAVEN`T MODIFIED THE SKETCHES TO REFLECT THIS, AS FOR THE MOMENT, THIS IS JUST AN IDEA.
ANOTHER THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THESE IDEAS ARE UNTRIED AND ALTHOUGH ANYONE IS WELCOME TO USE THEM, IT IS THEIR RESPOSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DESIGN IS PROPERLY ENGINEERED AND APPROPRIATE FOR THEIR NEEDS AS I CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS!
ONE THING TO REMEMBER WHEN READING THESE SKETCHES IS THAT THE BLOCK IS NOW IN ONE PIECE AS THE SLIDING FUNCTION BETWEEN THE TWO HALVES HAS BEEN DROPPED AND THE SLIDING OF THE HEADS NOW TAKES PLACE ON THE TOP OF THE RISER. I HAVEN`T MODIFIED THE SKETCHES TO REFLECT THIS, AS FOR THE MOMENT, THIS IS JUST AN IDEA.
ANOTHER THING TO REMEMBER IS THAT THESE IDEAS ARE UNTRIED AND ALTHOUGH ANYONE IS WELCOME TO USE THEM, IT IS THEIR RESPOSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE DESIGN IS PROPERLY ENGINEERED AND APPROPRIATE FOR THEIR NEEDS AS I CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS!
ABOVE, ON SHEET 1, IS THE PLAN AND SECTION A-A OF THE FINAL VERSION. THE FUNCTIONS THAT IT ALLOWS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE ORIGINAL DECKEL FP1 RISER ARE:
1/ THE FP1 HEADS CAN BE MOUNTED ON THIS RISER IN THEIR ORIGINAL POSITIONS RELATIVE TO THE Y AXIS BUT 106mm HIGHER. THE DECKEL RISER DID NOT CATER FOR THIS USEFUL FUNCTION!
2/ THE FP2 HEADS CAN BE MOUNTED ON THIS RISER WITH THE FRONT OF THE HEAD FLUSH WITH THE FRONT OF THE FP1 Y AXIS AND CAN BE MOVED REARWARDS BY 40mm. THE DECKEL RISER ONLY ALLOWS THAT THE FP2 HEADS BE POSITIONED 22mm TO THE REAR OF THE FRONT FACE OF THE FP1 Y AXIS
1/ THE FP1 HEADS CAN BE MOUNTED ON THIS RISER IN THEIR ORIGINAL POSITIONS RELATIVE TO THE Y AXIS BUT 106mm HIGHER. THE DECKEL RISER DID NOT CATER FOR THIS USEFUL FUNCTION!
2/ THE FP2 HEADS CAN BE MOUNTED ON THIS RISER WITH THE FRONT OF THE HEAD FLUSH WITH THE FRONT OF THE FP1 Y AXIS AND CAN BE MOVED REARWARDS BY 40mm. THE DECKEL RISER ONLY ALLOWS THAT THE FP2 HEADS BE POSITIONED 22mm TO THE REAR OF THE FRONT FACE OF THE FP1 Y AXIS
ABOVE, SHEET 2, SHOWING DETAILS OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE GEARING SECTIONS B-B AND X-X
ABOVE, SHEET 3, SHOWING DETAILS OF THE DECKEL CLAMP SECTION C-C AND SECTIONS Y-Y AND Z-Z
ABOVE, SHEET 4, SHOWING AN ALTERNATIVE SECTION C-C WHICH IS BASED ON INFORMATION THAT I RECEIVED ABOUT THE DECKEL RISER CLAMP. ALSO SECTION D-D SHOWING THE REVISED CLAMP TO BE USED IN POSITIONS 2 AND 3 AS SHOWN ON THE PLAN ON SHEET 1.
ABOVE, THE FLAMECUT BLANK FOR THE DUAL RISER SHOWN RESTING ON MY FP1 HELGA`S Y AXIS. THE REAL ACTION IS JUST BEGINNING!